Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Moral Relativism... my new focus for a while.

Moral relativism to me is such a load of phooey. It is (at least the way it appears) is the moral relativist wants to live the way they want to live with no fear of consequences. in a nut shell. well here are a few things i have to say.

1. this is taken from wikipedia (such a reliable source i know ;) )
"
Defending relativism
Another critique of moral relativism which falls into this category postulates that anyone who claims that no moral absolutes exist undermines their ability to justify their own existence. According to this argument, if a moral relativist is intellectually honest, they have no right to claim that they should remain unharmed by other individuals who adhere to a subjectively determined or culturally-bound moral theory which does not regard causing harm to others, or at least moral relativists, as wrong. In this sense, it is difficult for a moral relativist to hold that they have a right to exist (and in doing so, formulate their own set of moral values) in the first place. Just as they are unable to argue that slavery, the Holocaust, etc. are ultimately immoral, moral relativists are unable to argue that the discontinuation of their own lives at the hands of another individual (who adheres to a different set of values) would be ultimately immoral, either. Moral relativists could respond by agreeing they have no objective right to live, but the subjective moral codes of most people would prevent them from harming the moral subjectivists anyway. Such a response would be seen as a gamble of varying risk. They could claim instead that it is wrong in the sense of being against their moral code, but what is important here is the behavior of the attacker; there is no necessary reason why their attacker should be swayed by someone else's personal or cultural beliefs. In this sense, it is argued, moral relativists suffer from an inability to defend their own interests, regardless of their own moral code. While this argument may not be compelling, opponents claim it shows some of the inherent shortcomings of the relativist philosophy."

2.  the basic idea of moral relativism is as far as i can see or tell this is the way it seems.
"what I'm feeling now determines what i believe for now,  and you can't tell me i'm wrong or should change because it's what's right for me."
well here is my question.  ok that's what's right for you, but what if what's right for me is telling you that you are wrong?"   who are you to say i can't say that?

here is an analogy that i like.
say you have a house that has 3 rooms.   you live in the city somewhere and you rent out two of your rooms to people.   say the going rate is 400$ a month per room (it's a good sized room and this includes electric water, sewage all that good stuff) so there is you and person A  and person B   for the first three months  persons A and B  both pay their rent on time and the proper amount of 400$   then month 4 comes along and person A pays their rent,  but person B does not ( i know what you are asking,  why is it always person B  why can't it be person A?   well, because i like person A that's why)  so you go up to person B and say hey sucka i need the rent in 3 days or we get a late fee.  person B says,  oh, that sucks,  but i don;t feel like i should pay rent anymore.  I don;t believe i should have to pay rent anymore.   here is the dilemma.  YOU ARE a moral relativist, so  here is my question to you.   is it right or wrong to evict that person because they REFUSE to pay rent.  not because they can't  this is not about ethics, but morality and absolutes.  is that person wrong in breaking their contract with you and not paying rent, and should you throw them out?   
  • YES?  ______
  • NO?   ______   
please check only one. 

7 comments:

Anonymous said...

If I were truly to stick to my guns and what I believe in...I would have to check "No"

Anonymous said...

I forgot to precede my other comment with "If I were a moral relativist and I were to truly..."

Billy said...

I was just pooping by, so dont expect me to get into a debate here, but moral relativism does not mean there are no consequences for our actions. We can set up a law and breaking it leads to punishment. It can be a ridiculous law like no eating spaghetti on a tuesday - or it can be a "good" one like child sacrifice is illegal (please note some societies did allow child sacrifice).

You can have laws but they do not have to be absolute in a theistic sense - they are therefore relative - or perhaps at best pseudoabsolute.

Taking an ancient text written by xenophobes and homophobes as an absolute moral code is just asking for trouble.

My problem with moral absolutes is that they have never been demonstrated to exit (please note this is not the same as moral universalism - which I dont think is particularly universal either).

Your problem as a theist is to demonstrate absolutes exist (overcoming the euthyphro dilema in the process) and then demonstrate that there is some eternal consequence for breaking such a law.

The fact we appear to have moral laws does not mean they come from a god. That is a non sequitir

Billy said...

I was just pooping by

Ooops :-)

Billy said...

Oh, and one final thing. Moral relativism does not mean that I will suddenly change my position on genocide/ shoplifting or what ever. Generally our environment helps fix our moral compass - not a god. So as a relativist, I can live my entire life disaproving of murder and understand that when I appeal to someone that murder is wrong, I am only doing so on the understanding/ hope that that person shares the same view as me - if they dont, then there is no metaphysical law that can be brought in to say I'm right. As an absolutist, you may want to ponder the grey areas - would it have been wrong to kill hitler? If you absolutely believe killing is wrong, you have say that you could not kill hitler. If you are a relativist, you can choose the best outcome - one life for millions?

If you believe in absolutes, it is either right or it is wrong. Which is it? If you allow him to live, you allow untold suffering. If you kill him, then it is either OK to kill and you have effectively said that not killing is not an absolute - or you have moved into situational ethics - which is perfectly allowable in relativism.

Anonymous said...

PWN3D!

Where is the response from the blog poster to Billy's response I really want to hear it!

David Clark said...

"I was just pooping by, so dont expect me to get into a debate here"

there is my response JerChad. Billy does not want a debate. and to me there is no debate, there are moral absolutes and JerChad....you know what those absolutes are... you are not convincing anyone even yourself otherwise.